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Dialogue between KingBimbisara and Siddharth Gautama

The following excerpts are from Chapter 1, "How a Bodhisatta became a Siddharth Gautama", from Buddha and His Dhamma (A critical edition, Edited, Introduced and Annotated by Aakash Singh Rathore and Ajay Verma) by B.R.Ambedkar, Oxford University Press, Fourth Impression, 2013; pgs. 32 to 39. These excerpts are in the section containing the dialogue between King Bimbisara and Buddha where Bimbisara is trying to persuade Gotama Siddharth to let go of the wandering way of life and return back to his earlier social standing and course of life.



Excerpt 1

Bimbisara to Siddharth: "Pursue according to the rules of religious merit, wealth, and pleasure; pursue love and the rest, in reverse order. These are the three objects in life; when men die they pass into dissolution as far as regards this world. Do thou, therefore, by pursuing the three objects of life, cause this personality of thine to bear its fruit; they say that when the attainment of religion, wealth, and pleasure is complete in all its parts, then the end of man is complete. Do not thou let these two brawny arms lie useless, which are worthy to draw the bow; they are well fitted to conquer the three worlds, much more the earth. "

Siddharth to Bimbisara: "... Success in pleasure is to be considered a misery in the man of pleasure, for he becomes intoxicated when the pleasures of his desire are attained; through intoxication he does what should not be done, not what should be done; and being wounded thereby he falls into a miserable end. These pleasures which are gained and kept by toil, which after deceiving leave you and return whence they came --- these pleasures which are but borrowed for a time --- what man of self-control, if he is wise, would delight in them?

... As for the common opinion, "pleasures are enjoyment", none of them when examined are worthy of being enjoyed; fine garments and the rest are only the accessories of things --- they are to be regarded as merely the remedies of pain. Water is desired for allaying thirst; food in the same way for removing hunger; a house for keeping off the wind, the heat of the sun, and the rain; and dress for keeping off the cold and to cover one's nakedness. So too a bed is for removing drowsiness; a carriage for remedying the fatigue of a journey; a seat for alleviating the pain of standing; so bathing is a means for washing, health, and strength. External objects therefore are to human beings means for remedying pain --- not in themselves sources of enjoyment; what wise man would allow that he enjoys those delights which are only used as remedial?" (emphasis added).

... Since to be a king involves a wider range of responsibility, therefore the sorrows of a king are great; for a king is like a peg --- he endures trouble for the sake of the world. A king is unfortunate, if he places his trusts in his royalty which is apt to desert, and loves crooked turns; and, on the other hand, if he does not trust in it, then what can be the happiness of a timid king? And since after even conquering the whole earth, one city only can serve as a dwelling place, and even there only one house can be inhabited, is not royalty mere labour for others? And even in royalty nothing more than one pair of garments is all he needs, and just enough food to keep off hunger; so only one bed, and only one seat is all that a king needs; other distinctions are only for pride." (emphasis added).

... Only he who, though seeing, would envy the blind; though free, the bound; though wealthy, the destitute; though sound in his reason, the maniac --- only he, I say, would envy one who is devoted to wordly objects. He who lives on alms, my good friend, is not to be pitied. He has here the best happiness, perfect calm, and hereafter all sorrows are for him abolished. But he is to be pitied who is overpowered by craving though in the midst of great wealth --- who attains not the happiness of calm here, while pain has to be experienced hereafter. What thou has spoken is well worthy of thy character, thy mode of life, and thy family; and to carry out my resolve is also befitting my character, my mode of life, and my family."



Excerpt 2:

Bimbisara to Siddharth: "... O, thou who desirest the mendicant's stage of life, enjoy pleasures now, in due time --- ere old age comes on and overcomes this thy beauty; well worthy of thy illustrious race. The old man can obtain merit by religion; old age is helpless for the enjoyment of pleasures; therefore, they say that pleasures belong to the young man, wealth to the middle-aged, and religion to the old. Youth in this present world is the enemy of religion and wealth --- since pleasures, however much we guard against them, are hard to hold, thereforce, wherever pleasures are to be found, there thy youth should seize them. Old age is prone to reflection, it is grave and intent on remaining quiet; it attains unimpassionedness with but little effot, unavoidably, and for very shame.

Therefore, having passed through the deceptive period of youth, fickle, intent on external objects, heedless, impatient, not looking at the distance --- they take breath like men who have escaped safe through a forest. Let, therefore, this fickle time of youth first pass by, reckless and giddy --- our early years are earmarked for pleasure, they cannot be kept from the power of the senses. Or, if religion is really thy one aim, then offer sacrifices --- this is thy family's immemorial custom, climbing to highest heaven by sacrifices."

Siddharth to Bimbisara: "But as for what thou has said to me, O King, that the universal pursuit of the three objects is the supreme end of man --- and thou saidst that what I regard as the desirable is misery --- thy three objects are perishable and also unsatisfying. And as for what thou saidst, "wait till old age comes, for youth is ever subject to change" --- this want of decision is itself uncertain; for age too can be irresolute and youth can be firm. But since Fate is so well skilled in its art as to draw the world in all its various ages into its power --- how shall the wise man, who desires tranquility, wait for old age, ready like a hunter, with old age as his weapon, and diseases scattered about as his arrows, smiting down living creatures who fly like deer to the forest of destiny, what desire can there be in anyone for length of life? It well befits the youthful son or the old man or the child so to act with all promptitude, that they may choose the path of the religious man whose soul is all mercy.

And as for what thou saidst, be diligent in sacrifices for religion, such as are worthy of thy race and bring a glorious fruit --- honour to such sacrifices! I desire not that fruit which is sought by causing pain to others! To kill a helpless victim through a wish for future reward --- it would be unseemly action for a merciful, good-hearted man, even if the reward of the sacrifice were eternal. And even if true religion did not consist in quite another rule of conduct, by self-restraint, moral practice, and a total absence of passion --- still it would not be seemly to follow the rule of sacrifice, where the highest reward is described as attained only by slaughter. Even that happiness which comes to a man while he stays in the world, through the injury of another, is hateful to the wise compassionate heart; how much more if it be something beyond our sight in another life?

I am not to be lured into a course of action for future reward --- my mind does not delight, O King, in future births; these actions are uncertain and wavering in their direction, like plants beaten by the rain from a cloud."